Olatunde Sobomehin and sam seidel on Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work That Matters

Olatunde Sobomehin, CEO and co-founder of StreetCode Academy, and sam seidel, K12 Lab director of strategy and research at the Stanford d.school, discussed their book Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work That Matters with Seth Markle, associate professor of history and international studies at Trinity College. Their conversation took place August 9, 2023, as part of the Academic Innovation for the Public Good book series. Here are the video and transcript of the event.

Transcript

This transcript has been edited; introductory and closing remarks from the live event have been removed.

SETH MARKLE: First, I want to say thank you to the organizers of this event and inviting me to be a part of this conversation with Sam and Tunde. And I'd also like to thank the co-authors here, Tunde and Sam, for writing a book at a very appropriate time for me.

[LAUGHS]

I mean, I'm going to be honest, I'm in a transitional moment in my life professionally and personally. Just got back from a 4 and 1/2 month research trip in Tanzania and other places in eastern and southern Africa. Coming back, have a book project that I need to start writing. And I needed some inspiration.

And I read this book, you know? And I didn't know about this book. This book came into my life and served as a lot of things for me to reflect on. A lot of goal setting, stuff that I just really needed. A lot of food for thought. So I just want to say I appreciate you all for your time, energy, and thoughtfulness for this book.

So we want to get started, and we want to get started with a poll question. And so this poll question is going to really frame the hour that we have together, because this book is really about engaging the reader. And we'll talk more about that hopefully in the conversation. And so we want to keep this Zoom session, this webinar, around engagement with the audience. So please, you'll see a poll question. Please choose. We get a chance to see it, and that helps us move along this conversation. So take about a minute or two.

Sam or Tunde, do you want to add anything to that about the poll?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: I want to say one thing to all the guests that are here. Nearly 100 people that we're in community with right now. And I want to just start by saying that for Sam and me, every time we started to write before we published the book in the process of writing, we would start with intentions. And intentions was a way for us to really center ourselves on what we see for the future.

Sometimes it was us closing our eyes. Sometimes it was just us sharing what's on our heart. Sometimes we would bring heavy moments in our life. You mentioned transition, personally, professionally. We brought that to the table. It was literally our intention that it would speak to people in moments like you have, and that we would be a vessel. That we would be a vessel for ideas and thoughts.

This book is centered around people, not ourselves. Right, this wasn't us feeling like we had answers to offer. We literally wanted to be a vessel for people to do the right thing. And so I'm just glad that you shared your point. I'm glad that we can open up with a poll that allows the audience to speak to what's in their heart in this moment, right? And so we could try to be of service to that.

And Sam, you shared some reasons for the poll. I think it's wonderful if you shared some of those thoughts on why the poll. It's a simple poll, but why this is important.

SAM SEIDEL: Yeah, thank you for bringing our intentions practice into this group right now. And I think the poll connects to it, right? Because I know for us, one of our intentions for this next chunk of time that we all have together is to be of service to everyone who has chosen to take time out of your day to join us. And our hope is that something that we share will connect, will be inspiring, will be useful, will feed you, will nourish you in some way, right?

And Seth, it's really moving to hear about how the book has done that for you. Our hope is the book does that for everyone who picks it up in one way or another. But focusing on this hour, we want so badly to be able to show up for y'all in that way and for you to come off of this feeling like there's more fuel in your tank, not less. Feeling like you have some pieces to carry forward.

And so the poll is really just a way for us to understand a little better how to aim as we have this conversation. And we'll touch on all the points on the poll one way or the other. But it can help us lean a little bit. And so Seth and Tunde and I appreciate you all participating.

I think the other piece that I'll just note is we want this to be participatory. It's a little funny, right? Because we only see our own faces. We know you're out there. But we do. And so the chat is a great place, right? The poll is cool. That's one way to let us hear just a little bit of your voice. But hop in the chat. Let us know what the questions are, the reactions, the points of resonance, the points of contrast with your life. I promise you, the more you engage, the more we engage, and the conversation gets dynamic.

So I guess if I could foist an intention upon everyone who's joined us, it would be to not see this as a passive recipient activity entirely, but to at least pick one or two moments where you jump in and contribute. So with that, maybe we just take one more moment to let folks finish filling out the poll if you haven't or formulate a question or something in the chat to help us orient the conversation. Thank you.

SETH MARKLE: So we have the poll here. That people get to see but hope to gain? And we see the percentages out here. So it looks like pretty even to some extent. A lot of people want to know about, obviously, inspiration from the stories. Information, and then integration. And so thank you so much for participating. And let's get right to it, you know.

My first question is really more of an introductory question. And these are actually two questions. My first question really has to start with the title of the book. Particularly the first title, "Creative Hustle." I think for a reader, you may think judging the title that this is something for artists, people in the creative industry, TV, music, film. But really, this is a text for everybody. And so can you just talk a little bit about what is creative hustle, and what do you mean by that term?

SAM SEIDEL: Yeah. Thanks, Seth.

[LAUGHS]

Always a risky first question to ask authors about the title of their book, because there's always so much behind it. But I'll try to keep it brief and succinct. And Tunde, maybe if you have it handy, you could pull up the image with just our two-word definition of creative hustle. But for us, Seth, there's a couple things I'd like to highlight about the term.

One is just a strong feeling that our world needs more creativity from all of us. That there's some really big challenges we're facing in terms of the inequities we see in society, in terms of the climate challenges, the political challenges. And we're not going to thrive. We're not all going to thrive on this planet if we don't employ a massive degree of creativity. Right now and in this coming generation.

So it's important. It's an important first word. Hustle is a complicated one. It really connected for Tunde and me, because one of the things we bonded on early in our relationship was our love of hip hop culture and our having grown up in a culture where that word has really positive connotations. But we also realized that for some people, hustle can come across in a different way that's like a con or a '70s dance move. Or even just this kind of hustle culture that asks us all to just work harder and harder and harder.

And so what we mean by it is that entrepreneurial spirit, that energy of saying, I'm going to make stuff happen, right? I can have creative ideas. How do I put them into action? So Tunde pulled up this slide. These two words are probably the most succinct definition we've come to for what we mean by creative hustle. It's like having just boundless imagination, and then finding ways to put that imagination into action.

SETH MARKLE: Tunde, you want to add anything to that?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Yeah, I think in a two-pronged benefit, I want to read from the book. I think it's always amazing. I love the words that we were able to do. I brag on Sam a lot. Sam's written four books in this last year. His Hip Hop Genius book was written about 10 years ago, put out another edition.

So to be able to work with — he calls himself a recovering lyricist, somebody who has a way with words and be able to put ideas together, I love a chance to read it. So if you don't mind, I'll read this as a really, to me, succinct way of summing up why creative hustle matters in the world today. Sam mentioned it. I mean, so much has changed since we wrote that. But these are the words.

"We live in a world where so much is determined for us. When and where we are born, who our family is and knows. How much money's in our bank accounts and how much melanin is in our skin. All of these factors indicate precise paths we're expected to follow. Too often, we silence our creativity and let our hustle calcify. We trade our potential fulfillment and impact for facsimile of impact. Human beings have always used creative problem solving to survive. Let's explore how it can help us thrive." I had to go off memory. Some of it was being chopped up by our chat.

But that to me did a couple of things. First, it spoke to, I think, something that Sam had mentioned. When you grow up the periphery and you grow up in neighborhoods and in systems where you're used to pushing through, creative hustle is almost like a necessary way of life, right? We've always had to survive, right?

And so for me, someone who grew up mixed heritage, identifies African American in America, that's almost default in my experience. But what that opened up and by talking to so many people, it was no matter who you were. Right, you could be in any lane of society. And so many of us feel like, man, that's speaking to me. I'm expected to be this.

But creative hustle got busted out of that. And it's not busting out in a little bit. No, we're busting out to live to the fullest. And so the creative with that imagination speaks to really thinking big. I mean, this is a bigness. We should leave out of here inspired, because the stories that we're telling are stories that people who, man, you were on that track. Man, you went on a whole other freeway. You know about busting out of that.

And then it didn't just happen because you dreamed it. It happened because you took action, right? And what I think Sam spoke to in the beginning of the intention of everybody on here in some form or fashion, right, has a lane that they're in, yes, they're going to want to bust out of that. But also, can you take action in whatever job you're in? Or whatever life you're living, right? And whatever season you're in, can you take some form of action?

And we saw creative hustlers who did both. Thought big, dreamed big, used creativity. I'm not who you think I am. And then also took some action on that on a daily consistent. And seasonal. Sometimes you didn't have the energy. Sometimes you did, right? But somehow, you were always going to push through and take some action.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, so let's build off of that, because you answered my other introductory question about hip hop. Hip hop flows throughout the book, from references to rappers, hip hop artists who have been really successful. To the way the book is designed, even. The graphic design of the book has a lot of hip hop aesthetic to it. And then you two both in being involved in hip hop education, working with young people of hip hop generations.

So for me, there's this hip hop framework or this underlying hip hop theme running throughout the book. And I think it speaks to both of you coming from and identifying with that culture, like myself. So I really appreciated that. But getting into the meat of the book here, right? Because we don't have so much time.

These nine stories, and even our audience members were interested in the inspiration, the inspirational nine creative hustlers that you profile, can you tell us about them? There's a lot of diversity there, right? A lot of diversity in terms of race, gender, ethnicity, and profession. Can you talk about how you identified these hustlers? Who they are, and can you tell us a little bit about who they are? And I want to follow up on some that really resonated with me.

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: I think there were — you spoke to a lot of it, right? I want to speak to the origin of the class a little bit and then — origin of the book.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, can we start with the origin, and then we'll talk a little bit more about the — 

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: I'll go shortly into the origin, and then I'll kick it off to Sam and talk about how we compile that nine. But Sam and I got together, we had this love. We both traversed different worlds, right? I had one foot as a graduate of Stanford University. I'd spent the last 20 years of my life serving and being in community with East Palo Alto, which is just a mile away from Stanford University but can feel so distant at times.

And so we felt like we had these worlds, right? Sam had worked at the same time going to college at an Ivy League university. He was also working the juvenile justice system, right? A lot of these folks didn't even have access to the basics of education. So we had seen these different, quote, unquote, "tracks of opportunity," or lack thereof. And so we both had a passion for bridging those worlds. Those are more alike than we know.

And we said, how can we teach a class? And Sam, as the director of the K-12 Lab, thought it was a brilliant idea to say, I want to teach a class that's different than any other class in Stanford's campus. I want to have half the students come from your community in East Palo Alto and StreetCode Academy, which is the nonprofit that serves East Palo Alto community.

And that was a drastic vision. Because we had been involved in classes before. But it was always one or two spots. This was like, let's make up half the class. Brilliant idea. We thought, what could this diverse group of folks, right? We serve people of all ages, not just youth, right? So what is this going to look like? This diverse — we had 100 applicants from Stanford University. We grabbed a handful of students.

About 30 students, 15 from both sides, came to this class. And we had to think about what would resonate, right? And there was not one track. We started off with a diverse set of perspectives, ages, thoughts, races, backgrounds, dreams. These were all like, how do you make something?

And one thing that stood out that I think I hope came across in the book was, man, we're similar in that we all want to break out of these tracks. We all want something new and fresh. And we all want to do it, and what are those things, right? We all have dreams and gifts. We all have goals. And we found this arc that to get from gifts to goals, you need principles, people, and practice. And that diversity and diversity of showing that we're all on this same path, how broad could this really relate to?

When we were asked to write a book, we said we want to show that. And Sam, maybe you can put some color on to how we chose those nine folks.

SAM SEIDEL: Yeah. And I also want to shout out — first of all, thank you for everything you just shared today. It always gives me chills to think back on how all this started, right? Because it definitely wasn't premeditated we're going to write a book. It really came out of everything Tunde just shared, and it's been such an incredible journey. Just really grateful for it.

One of the questions that popped up in the Q&A box was, can you give us some important advice in life that you have learned? And I think it really pertains to what you were just sharing, Tunde. Because I think one of the things that you and I connected on was like, to whatever extent we've had any success and been able to move in the world in some of the ways you were just describing, breaking out of the tracks that were determined for us and doing things a little bit different, being inter- or multidisciplinary, hybrid in our work and lives, you and I both were so clear when we first connected how much we learned from the people around us and how lucky we feel to have the communities that we've had — we have in our lives, right?

So part of it for me was like when we first started talking about, how could we possibly teach this? How could we learn it ourselves more, and how can we teach it? We started talking about some of the people who have taught us, right? So you mentioned right off the bat Squint, who's in that first section of the book. I mentioned in that first conversation Brian Terry, who's in the second section of the book, right?

So some of what was going on was us recognizing how lucky we are to have these people in our lives who have taught us so much, given us this important life advice, and just wanting to unlock that for others. Right, saying, man, the world would be a better place if everyone got the time with Brian that I've gotten, that everyone got the time with Sarahi that you and now I've gotten. And so on with all of the folks who are featured. And many folks who didn't get to be featured in quite as prominent a way in the book, but who have been so influential to us and so inspirational and put us on to so much.

And so really, we just started making lists. Who are those people that have moved us? And aspirationally, who are a few we'd love to learn from that we haven't gotten to spend all that time with yet? And we just reached out to everyone. Most of them we had some connection with. Some were a little more distant, and we had to just put out feelers and try to do some social engineering. Who knows someone? Who knows this person? And started interviewing those folks and asking for their advice.

And just because I want to respond to the question in the chat, I'll just say one thing. There was a couple of things that we just heard across the board. One was you have to know what your principles are that guide you. And that's the first entire section of the book. Not just chapter, but entire section is about that.

The next is you have to know who your people are. That's the second entire section of the book. And the third is you have to be deliberate about your practice. That doesn't mean you have to do the same thing for 30 years straight. You should probably change it up as you go through your life. But you do have to be really intentional about the practices, the rituals that you set.

So those were like, no matter who we talked to, what industry they worked in, what age they were, how they identified, all these things, we heard those consistently. One particular smaller gem that I'll just shout out because it really struck me in all these conversations — I don't think it was every single person, but almost everyone talked about the power of writing things down. I remember Squint telling us, Tunde, how he made a list of all these people he wanted to photograph. Totally aspirational. I mean, this is like Michael Jordan, you know? Jay-Z, Rakim. And realizing that he's photographed everyone that was on that list.

Brian, same story. Just down the list, we kept hearing from people, I wrote it down, and then I manifested. And it was just, it was really striking, because I think I am someone who fears doing that because I'm afraid if I write it down and say how bad I want something to happen, then if it doesn't happen, I'll feel bad or maybe it'll jinx it. I don't know what it is, but I have this fear sometimes of doing that. And I've really turned a corner on that because of all these stories. So I just wanted to speak to that particular question in the chat and then also just give a huge shout-out to all of the folks we talked to who have inspired us and who we got to learn from in this process.

SETH MARKLE: I imagine it was difficult to narrow it down. You mentioned these three things, right? The establishing your code, those principles. Creating your network or knowing your network and then creating these rituals. Now I engaged. One of the things I really loved about this text is active participation in the reader. Although this is a 100 plus pages, it's not a quick read. After each part, I had to sit down and reflect, because you're asking questions to the reader on reflecting on their goals.

Now the most difficult thing I'm going to share for me, and I'm wondering if this is something that you're getting from others, is the most difficult thing for me to do is to talk about and identify my gifts. What you call naming gifts. And that's so hard, because I'm somebody who likes to think about what I'm lacking as far as skills and focus on building that without thinking about the skills that I have and trying to either hone or harness them.

So it was very, very challenging to think. But you can't actually go from principles, doing these three things, without actually talking about your gifts. So can you say a little bit more about the importance of naming your gifts?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Go ahead, Sam. And then I'm going to pull up the one pager that he's talking about and speak to some of my personal experience.

SAM SEIDEL: Oh, yeah. So part of what, Seth, I think part of what you're talking about is that this book is also — it's a class, it's a book, but it's like we tried to structure the whole book to inspire folks to take action, right? So to that point, there's even after each section, there's these moments where we actually turn the book sideways and give some prompts and say, what are your principles? Or there's one, speaking right to what you were just talking about, Seth, around gifts, right? So what are what are your gifts? What are your goals, right?

And you're so tapped in, Seth, having done a lot of workshops beyond the initial class that Tunde was talking about. This is the hardest for people to name, is, what are my gifts? And so a couple things that we've found to be helpful in unearthing our gifts, one, is to let go of the notion that gifts are things we were born with or that come easily to us. And to redefine it a little bit to say, gifts are — they may be that, but they're also the things that for whatever reason we feel compelled day after day to come back to, right?

And they might be the things that are hardest. I once heard a quote. I don't know who said it, I'm sorry. But they said, writers are people for whom writing is harder than everyone else. And I love that, right? It's like, that's why people get good at it, because they keep trying and it drives them nuts. Right? They don't just hit some keys and move on. And that's what makes them a great writer.

What are the things that you come back to over and over even though they are hard? Those can be your gifts. Another way of approaching it is, what do people compliment you for? I might say, oh, I'm not a good writer. But I did just hear Tunde say he loves my words. So maybe I write that down. I'm not fully owning it, but I'm just acknowledging that other people have said it.

And then third, when we do this in collective, when we facilitate workshops and teach classes, we ask people to borrow from each other, right? So once I write down a few and you write down a few, we might share with each other what each of us wrote down. Because you might have written some stuff down about how you show up in your family that didn't even occur to me to think of as my gifts.

And maybe I don't show up the exact same way in my family, but it sparked something for me of like, oh yeah, I don't do that thing, Seth does. But I do actually do a lot at home. And I want to talk about that. I feel I'm proud of that. So those are three ways in.

But I mean, if nothing else, I think asking people around you, right? It's a great prompt to say, hey, I'm doing this thing for this Creative Hustle class or book or whatever it is, and I got to write down some gifts. And they told me to ask some people I trust, and you're one of them. And see what people say. So I hope everyone will do that. And I think it is — you tapped into it, Seth — it's an essential part of this process.

SETH MARKLE: Tunde?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Yeah, so I just wanted to point out one thing. On this slide, you'll see this sheet, this one page that often is referred to in the book. Right, this is what you're coming back to, this exercise you're coming back to. We oftentimes facilitate this with several groups.

And you're right. In all the groups, right, gifts is that hardest part. And Sam gave a lot of great examples and centered or finished with that one of just doing it in community. I love the class of fifth graders that we did this exercise with. And the fifth graders didn't know where to start, right? How do I even think about what I'm good at? I know what I love, and we went with there.

But then to have the fifth graders begin to compliment each other, you just saw people light up. And how they were received by their peers or received by their teachers or other adults. And even instantly, you can tell somebody by the way they light up a room or the way they express themselves in their clothing or what they're interested in on the side of their backpack. You could see that there's interest and gifts that are calling them. Right, as Sam mentioned, what I get called to, that show up. And I love that.

You see that we'll go on and make this. But one thing that I wanted to mention and just give a personal anecdote is that when we first did the class, it was a shiny one pager. It had graphics. You would almost want to laminate it. And we designed it. And we wrestled with whether we should put that in the book. Whether we should have it so we could tear it out. Or to go with this scrappy thing that you could do with a Post-It note.

And I just want to appreciate everyone in the chat who's been extremely brilliant in the chat. There are things that I'm learning walking away with. And one of them that I walked away with was, just write it on a Post-It note. Right, here's a quick and easy way. And somebody said, I'm using my words to describe what I took away from it. But just get loose. Release yourself of the pressure.

And so we wanted to make a one pager that was scrappy so you can keep doing this over and over again. And I found — I've now done this about 20 times — that I have about 20 of these gifts to go sheet. And I see that, man, my goals sometimes change. Man, there are several goals that have been on there for the last three years.

There are gifts that change and develop. And so we develop an understanding of ourselves over time. These are not in concrete. Right, these are not what I'm born with, and this shouldn't stay stagnant. My gifts should evolve, and it should change my expression. My understanding of my gifts should evolve and change. And they have. And that's pulling out these scrappy sheets.

So I would encourage just to look and reference that in the book and perhaps make some draft of this sheet. And just to start to write down what gifts do I see in myself, what goals do I have, et cetera.

SETH MARKLE: Well, that's really excellent. And I really recommend really using that sheet. And for me, I found that it was very useful in multiple projects, right, both professionally and personally. And having separate one for each and then seeing how they overlap, things to do differently. I felt like I was taking away a lesson from somebody for a particular project I have in mind, right?

So for example, I'll give you an example of someone that I really resonated with me was Brian Terry. The chef, publisher. Now I know Brian, going back to when he was a grad student. But we lost touch. And then all of a sudden, I saw his book, first book. And then I've just seen his career explode in what he's doing.

But I had no idea how he got there was through creating his own board of personal advisors. Actually going to people outside of his field, but who he respected with skills and knowledge, and asking them about a plan of action and how to move forward. And I think that's something that resonated with me, because that takes a very courageous step, to bring people together and say, how can you all help me out, right? That sort of reciprocity and that community building.

And so knowing your network is, I think, so important, because it is a village that kind of raises a community, right? And I think I've lost touch with my network that I've created 20 years ago. Some people who I felt are really innovative, how come that person's not in my life anymore? I found myself asking. I need to go back, because that person — you know what I mean? That person can benefit me in a way that helps me grow. And that's another important lesson.

Because of time, do want to shift to — and I think based on the chat, people are flowing and talking about this in the context of higher education. And I want to move the conversation to that. You've taught this not only through K through 12, but in college, right, to college students. And first, before we get into some of those student outcomes, want to talk about really the state of higher education.

Can you share a little bit about the state of higher education and why there is this need for academic innovation and how creative hustling or the creative hustle helps fuel that academic innovation that's needed within the higher education space. And Sam, can we start off with you?

SAM SEIDEL: Sure, happy to. Man, there's so much in what you just said. I'm having to practice a lot of discipline to not jump back to the beginning part of what you said, which I have so much to respond to. And I also just want to shout everyone out for the lively chat and the Q&A. There's so much to talk about here. We'll all stay until midnight, and we'll address all of it.

No, I hope we can continue the conversation, because there's so much good stuff in here. But to your question about higher ed, how this all might pertain to or play out in higher ed. And by no means do I feel like what I'm about to say is the answer. I hope I can open up a few areas for us to probe into in this conversation and beyond.

But one thing for me is we were talking earlier, and Tunde read that one paragraph from the book about being intentional in interrupting the way that our society currently functions, and interrupting the tracks that we're put on based on our skin color, our socioeconomic status, all of these things. And I think higher ed has a crucial role to play, well, in either upholding those tracks or interrupting them.

And I'm really excited by some of the things that we're seeing. I think that what Stanford Digital Education is doing with the opening up of Stanford credit. Stanford education and credit, right? Tunde and I did a cool thing bringing a bunch of folks in who weren't formally enrolled. But we couldn't give them one thing, which was the credit for that class. And the fact that Stanford Digital Education has figured out a way to specifically open up those learning experiences and credits for Title I, students going to Title I high schools, to me is very inspiring.

That's an example of creative hustle, of saying, there's a way that these institutions have worked. We're going to work within them, but we're also going to not just accept the way things have always been. We're going to find some new ways here. And I think we just need a lot more of that. I think we need to make these institutions more porous. How do people flow in? How do people flow out?

So many of Stanford's enrolled students who were in that initial creative hustle class that Tunde and I taught have stayed in touch and have talked about how that was the most impactful class that they took. And Tunde and I can take credit, the d.school should take credit for creating really amazing kind of learning experiences.

And I think it's not lost on me that it was the class that was half StreetCode Academy students, half Stanford students. And I think a huge part of the value was that interconnection and being able to flow in and out of the campus, in and out of the institutional mindsets and strictures that often we are playing with in when we're in any of these institutions. This so happened to be at Stanford. But Seth, I'd be curious. I would imagine the same might be true at your institution and others that you've spent time at.

So I think everything we're talking about in the book I believe can apply to these institutions and to pursuing an innovation agenda within these institutions.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah. And it seems like what you're saying, too, is this idea around institutions, especially elite institutions like Stanford or Trinity, breaking down these barriers and having — when you're talking about flow, coming in and out, right? Because some people may think the college or the university space is an exclusive space. And we might find innovation in more inclusivity, right? As far as those who are teaching and those who are taking classes for credit. So definitely see something there.

Tunde, did you want to add anything around how you see creative hustle influencing people in the higher education space? Whether as teachers, students, administrators.

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: No, thank you. It's a certainly relevant and insightful question. And I'm even probably a little even more hesitant to try to propose an answer, right? But I will say that the second part of the Creative Hustle title I hope can maybe bring through some inspiration, right? Make Work That Matters.

When people hear "Creative Hustle," and a lot of our students initially came in like, OK, is this going to teach me a side hustle? Is this going to make me some income? That's going to help me make some money, right, or help make a career. And what we're finding I think could be some inspiration for leaders in higher education, is that there are people who are hungry to make work that matters. And I think that speaks two ways, right?

I think first, it's inspiration. All nine folks in this book are inspiration for folks who were disruptive. And I love that Lisa talking about leadership is not afraid to be disruptive. And I think everyone, wherever we sit, we sit in a position where we can be disruptive. I'm talking to myself. There are things we can do to be disruptive. And this book was trying to serve as inspiration for folks that didn't just make work that makes money, didn't just work just to make work that saves your job, didn't just make work that keeps the status quo. But make work that matters.

And that's, I think, something that we all can strive for. And I think it's also important to know that this generation is searching for that more and more. And so we're going to have to speak to that in a way that it really does matter, right? How do universities really matter in the world, and how can I push this agenda?

Because in a minute, right, we're going to start peeling off those stickers on the back of our car. Right, we're going to start peeling off that polo. Because if we're not connected with it in making work that really matters, I don't think it's going to last. And so I think we all have to be thinking about, what are the ways that are going to really make real impact?

And I've been hoping that Stanford University as an example, right? Sitting next to communities that are looking for and are thirsty for innovation to be models. Right, how do you really do that in a way that makes it work? Right, I think about Stanford University and the permanence that it has, from 100-year privilege that allowed it to have permanence. And a community that sits right by it. Right, East Palo Alto, that is threatened by being non-existent, right? We're threatening to even exist next to that university. What could Stanford do to share that permanence? And what could universities do to share that permanence that they've been able to build as an example of making work that matters?

SETH MARKLE: Yep. Thank you for that. Yeah, go, please.

SAM SEIDEL: I just want to share one other example from Stanford that I find inspiring. And it's the work of a colleague and friend of ours, Dr. Bryan Brown in the Graduate School of Education. And just this past spring, Dr. Brown, along with the leadership of the Stanford Accelerator for Learning and the Graduate School of Education, put on a day-long institute that invited — it was kind of similar to the class in a way, because it invited, not in terms of content necessarily, but in terms of the fact that it invited half Stanford — professors, grad students, staff, et cetera — and half community organization and education leaders into a room together to work for a day. And there was a live DJ.

And Maisha and Omo Moses came, the children of Bob Moses and leaders of the Young People's Project and spoke about that legacy. And it just, it embodies what I think we're talking about, which is interrupting a lot of the ways that things have been done, bringing in music and culture, bringing in history, and putting people in a room who don't always get to be in a room with a real mindfulness around power dynamics and how all that plays out to try to achieve something different and better.

So I just wanted to shout it out as yet another example. And I know probably folks on this call, we could all jump in and please feel free to drop some in the chat. But it was, as I see Tunde dropped in the chat, it was powerful. And I think it's important that we name and acknowledge some of the examples of where and how this is happening as much as we might also name and bemoan all of the things that aren't happening or the work that's still to be done. So just wanted to shout that out. Thanks for the chance to do that, Seth.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, as we move forward, I do want to shift to some of these questions that are coming up here on the Q&A because of time. And I think I could still allow you to talk about it in the context of higher education or not. So I'm going to leave that choice up to you. But we have one where one was asking for more about advice on how you can push through times of low energy and/or motivation.

And that question really hit me, because as I said at the beginning, I felt like I'm in a transition. And you're in the motion of things as a, quote, unquote, "associate professor." A lot of administrative work, kind of boring. You know what I mean? Very low. How can you push through those hard times? Yeah. And what can creative hustle — what can the lessons from the hustlers, right, the creative hustlers tell us about pushing through hard times?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: There's a part of the book that talks about the — man, it's something like the tough waves of creative hustlery. I forgot how we worded it. But it was really exciting. And let me just share some brief, just go over a couple examples from the book. We started the book — when you get this sheet that has gifts to goals and you have these three lanes — principles, people, and practice — we started with principles for a reason, right.

In the first chapter of the book is this gentleman, Khristopher "Squint" Sandifer, who's had a phenomenal career as a storyteller and photographer. And he talked about a lot of challenging times that has come. And I know him personally, so I those challenges aren't just limited to growing up in Palo Alto. But one of the things that he did to get through those times was to say, once I know my principle, I'm going to have a ritual that I'm going to do to remind me of who I am, right?

And he holds it as value of love. He's born on Valentine's Day, and that was instilled in him early that he wants to hold on to that value of love, that principle of love. And so he wears red every day. And so we ask in the book, what could we to do something that will remind us that what totem, what visual, what practice could we do that reminds us of our principles? And oftentimes when you can no longer hang on, it's the principles that really hold on to you.

And I want to just give one last example. You mentioned from the book Tesa Aragones, who's now a president of AKQA, an international prominent advertising marketing firm. And she's worked at GM and Nike and just had a Top 40 Under 40 kind of career. And she's phenomenal in every way possible. And you talk about some of that busy work, some of that demand of the professional work.

And what grounds her every day is she talks about talking to her mom. And her mom, Filipino immigrants, she's Detroit-born. She is really deep away from some of that early childhood routine that she grew up in. But speaking to her mom every day really grounded her with someone who knew her and could get her through those.

She talks in the book about a transition, right, a real tough transition. And she talked about some of the things that she wrote down and that she held on to and the design principle to help guide her to the next thing. But I remember her talking about that practice of every day calling her mom, even in the high moments, was the anchor that could carry her in those low moments. Right, so it's almost what could we do now even no matter where we are in that journey to prepare us for some of those inevitable ebbs and flows of life that we'll face.

And so she made that a practice, right, of every day, in addition to working out, in addition to meditation, in addition to a lot of other practices she has, making sure she talks to her mom.

SETH MARKLE: Right, those are two of the really, really great examples. And this idea of being able to have the self-discipline to keep doing those sort of rituals, especially if they're healthy practices, right? And I find myself having to distinguish between what's healthy and what has negative implications in terms of rituals that I do. And I think people may not be mindful or conscious or aware that maybe this practice that you think is helpful, maybe you need to start rethinking that in terms of understanding some of the negative consequences and move into some new healthier practices.

And I think the lessons from that section were really, really helpful. Especially what you put down, Tunde, as I was writing in your journal every day, right? Finding that space, especially as a family man. Might be hard finding that space, that quiet time. But making that quiet time is essential to that sort of growth that y'all are talking about through creative hustling.

Sam, I wonder if you can answer one of these other chat questions here. It says, "I'm often inspired by learning about habits related to gratitude practice. In any of your conversations —" sorry, I'm reading from the chat, "In any of your conversations for the book, were there any mentions about how gratitude practices impact hustling?" Very interesting.

SAM SEIDEL: Yeah, thank you to the anonymous attendee who put that question in. And I would love to hear your thoughts. I have one that popped right into mind when I saw the question. And Seth, as you just shared it. And Tunde, if you have others that came up through our interviews, it would be great to get those in, too.

But the one that popped into my mind was actually from the very first class we taught on this. And we had a member of the d.school community, Laine Bruzek, who shared her work. She's done some really cool projects, including one called Notable Women that's a VR app where you can hold your phone up to any piece of US currency and the face of the man on the bill is replaced by the face of a woman from history. And then you can access. And you can move the bill around and the face, it looks like it's on the bill. And then you can access history. You can learn about who that is and why they were selected to be on the bill.

Laine's done a bunch of cool projects, but I just wanted to share that one, because it's so cool. And you should all check it out. It's called Notable Women. But she talked about how much of her creative hustle practice is reaching out to people cold. Sending an email to someone or a LinkedIn message or whatnot to someone that she has never met and doesn't necessarily have an immediate tie to and how that's opened up such doors for her in creating the things that she wants to create in the world.

And I remember her cautioning our students or just saying, make sure you send the thank you email. Make sure you follow up and appreciate the time that folks have given you and how important that is. So nothing super revolutionary there. It's a thank you email. But I just remember the way she emphasized that point in that moment and how important it felt and how it landed with everyone in the room. Because I think folks were truly inspired when she shared some stories about the doors that have opened by doing some cold outreach, meaning outreach to people she doesn't know. And then the importance on the follow through and the importance on the appreciation was the second and equally important piece of that.

So that was the immediate story that came to mind. Tunde, I wonder if you have any others from the folks we interviewed for the book. And I really do mean it, both for the anonymous attendee who asked the question and for anyone else, I would love to hear about gratitude practices that you either hold or have heard about and aspire to hold. Would be great to get those flowing in the chat as well.

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: This is not necessarily a gratitude practice, but I thought it was a gratitude perspective that I thought was really interesting. This chapter title to me frames one of the many, many inspirational stories from this sister, Sarahi Salamanca. And the title is "Receive Better So You Can Give Better." And I love it, because it's better to give than to receive.

So sometimes we don't think about receiving, right? And so her gratitude came in learning how to receive. And her story is, to put it extremely simplified, she was told she couldn't — because of her immigration status in America, was told she could never go to college. Now, she's an award-winning college student now. She's won and been awarded from the White House. Her application that has helped over 50,000 people as of a year or two ago, now I'm sure it's several thousand more.

Other people in similar shoes go on to college. But she had to receive an alternative gift from somebody else, right? And that took a different perspective of gratitude and receiving that I thought was really powerful. Because so often, we're like, yo, let's give, let's feel. But she had to reverse it and say, I had to learn how to receive. I had to learn how to be grateful. Right, I had to learn how to be able to get something to be grateful.

And that, in turn, allowed her to give more. And that, to me, was really powerful. Because the motivation is right. Let's give, let's be generous. But that perspective of, I have to receive too and I have to learn how to do that, will allow me to get better was, I thought, a really powerful one for me.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, the one that came to mind for me with this question was, again, bringing it back to Brian Terry. Because he seemed to engage in building his network and building his personal board of advisors to help him move into this next stage of what he's doing as a chef and a publisher, is that not only he brought them together, but he cooked them food.

And he's an amazing cook. He's someone who's talking about bringing Black food culture into the mainstream and show appreciation about it. But it wasn't just, hey, come over and take up your time and energy and tell me what I can do. It was like, taste this food that I'm cooking, right? And that was a gratitude and appreciation to his friends and his community that he built in terms of them helping him work through achieving his goals as a chef and a publisher.

And Sarahi's story, oh my god, what I took away from that story, in addition to what you're saying, Tunde, was how she had this value. And this connects to my next question to the Q&A where someone asked about expanding more on principles. She had this principle about community, this value of community building, but community building in terms of getting community input in solving community problems. Right, this idea of reaching out.

When she was doing that campaign of like, what's the problem? When during the COVID pandemic. What's the problem? Right, and she wasn't just I'm going to have this issue, she actually talked to the people in the community and they came back with that issue. And then she came up with the ideas on solving that issue. So this value she placed on community input, community decision making, incredibly important for me as someone who does local community engagement. So that was really great.

But could you expand more on this question around principles? And that's from one of the questions from our audience is, can you talk a little bit more about that first part? Again, you talked about the photographer. But there's some other creative hustlers that are profiled under that section that also talk about values and principles and why they're important.

SAM SEIDEL: I mean, there's so much good stuff on this one. It's overwhelming.

SETH MARKLE: It truly is.

SAM SEIDEL: One that sticks with me is Ayesha Curry, who — there's a chapter about her in the book. And it's this tattoo that she has of a tree on her arm. Tunde, you mentioned Squint's wearing red every day as a kind of signal to himself. She put it on her body. Right, she puts this image on her body.

And she sees that as the roots of the tree being her family, firmly deeply planted. Never changing. That's where she comes from. Then her principles are like the trunk of that tree, right? They're at the center of it. Solid, visible to the world. And then the branches stem from there. And those can change with the seasons. Those might evolve over time.

And I just thought that was a really beautiful image to help us all think about what are our roots, our trunk, and our branches at this moment? And how do those branches, leaves, flowers, whatever else change over time? And also just the way that she chose to put that on her body as a reminder to be able to look down and touch back in with those. So that's another story that I found really powerful related to principles.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, totally. And she talks about protecting her peace, right?

SAM SEIDEL: Well, and — 

SETH MARKLE: I think for people in the higher education space, we're so overwhelmed with work, right, that she was protecting her peace by saying, it's OK to say no to things, right? And that is so important. Because people can get stretched so thin and feel compelled or pressured, either internally or externally, to say yes to everything that's asked of them. And they're finding no time for self-improvement or health or whatever. When I read Ayesha's story, it was like yeah, having that ability, that courage to say no is a value, is a principle that she holds dear, which I think is really important.

All right, what else do we got going on here on the Q&A? I know we got much time left, but if the questions keep coming, we can keep going a little bit. Let's see this one that just got up, "What was the most, ooh, inspiring story that you have heard?" That's a tough one, yeah. Is there one? How do you all want to talk about that question?

SAM SEIDEL: Well, Tunde, do you want to share about the recent story you shared with me about the — not from the book, but the person who had attended the workshop and what she went on to do?

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Yeah, that was the most recent. And maybe we can change the question to the most recent inspiring story.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah, there you go.

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Yeah. I know we're coming up on time. I'm looking at the clock, so I'll try to be short here. But here's a student who just wrote down on the gifts, right, that I want to be certified as a teacher. Here's a mother of two. Had no real way of doing it. Spoke to Sam, got inspired. OK, Stanford has a STEP program.

But wrote it down and a few weeks later, she saw me and we interacted. And she said that she had enrolled not in Stanford, but in another program. And it was sparked by that kind of dreaming up of what you could do. And it was so inspiring. She talked about the challenges of course of just not being a mother, right. Not having a partner to really support in that. But then also the time and the opportunity and the cost. And that was really inspiring.

TC Ellis, to me, was the most inspiring that I've ever heard. TC Ellis, to come, the courage that he showed. I love his question. And I'll end with that, because these are too inspiring. The question prompt from his was, what could you do that's illegal? What could you do that's illegal to get you on closer to your goal?

And then it says, we're not saying you do that, but it should help you think about, what are the possibilities, right? How far can I really go? And I love that, because TC Ellis — I wrote on my journal a couple of days ago. The title of the journal entry was, what am I willing to die for? And that was important to think about. Right, I don't want to die. I have a beautiful family.

But it is helpful to think about, what are some things that I would go that distance for? And TC Ellis, to me, put it on the line. And TC Ellis is living that life, man, in a way of purpose that is incredibly inspiring. So thank you for the time, y'all.

SETH MARKLE: Yeah. Sam, do you have any parting words here as well?

SAM SEIDEL: Just that I love collaborating with Tunde. I mean, I love you. I love you. I hope you all feel it.

OLATUNDE SOBOMEHIN: Love you too, brother.

SAM SEIDEL: Just super gratitude to Tunde, to you, Seth, and to Kristen, David, Lisa, Jenny, Jonathan. The whole team who puts this together. Really, really grateful for the opportunity to be with you all today, and of course to everyone who was able to join us. That's my gratitude practice for the day, just shouting you all out and sending love and appreciation.

SETH MARKLE: Indeed. And I just want to say thank you both for this book. And I just want to thank the audience as well as the organizers as well. Creative Hustle: Blaze Your Own Path and Make Work that Matters. Really appreciate y'all and everybody who came to listen.

The Academic Innovation for the Public Good book series is co-organized by Stanford Digital Education and Trinity College. Visit Academic Innovation for the Public Good to learn about upcoming events and to view our program partners and co-sponsors.